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1. Starbucks
2. McDonalds
3. Best Buy
4. Red Robin
5. Tiger Direct
6. No name computer shops
7. Exxon Station, chick was wearing a penguin pin and found out she uses SUSE
So my question being, do most lusers have loser jobs? Im sure some of them have professional jobs, but how many?
7. Exxon Station, chick was wearing a penguin pin and found out she uses SUSE
There are female Linux zealots now? (!!!)
Besides, if they got actual white collar jobs, then they'd be a member of the evil corporate machine. And that totally wouldn't jive with the RMSs of the world.
When I've first started reading Slashdot (around 2001), there was a pretty good representation of the academia - math guys, comp sci, physicists - now, most of them are gone from the comments sections.
FOSS is DEAD
I understand frustration but your fanatism is worse a 14-years old luser.
Grow up
Oh and linux!=FOSS as a matter of fact linux<<FOSS
- big business has it, programmers want it
- OSS programmers want to work on what they choose from their home, not being told on what from a cubicle
- money is a driving force for making a product deliver
Declare FOSS dead, and start a new license:
* open source
* pay to use it
* Let programmers work on what they want, just like amazon's mechanical turk they get paid by what is demanded, e.g. contributing sound and graphics support is paid best, programming the 500th version of minesweeper isn't.
* Use a karma-ripoff: discovering a bug pushes the programmer's revenue down and ups the one of the discoverer.
Sell the software on a license-base and throw the revenue in a pool. At the end of each month divide the pool amongst the programmers, based on their contribution/karma.
There are plenty of systems that have all of the above, except for paying out the programmer.
Dump FOSS, it had its chance more than once, time to bury the dragon.
Don't have anything to add - just that I liked reading your comments.
http://www.lockergnome.com/news/2003/04/26/opin...
Mike April 11th, 2008 at 8:44pm
...
"Thanks, but no thanks. Since I actually have to work with my PC, I’d rather give up sex than go to a pure Windows setup. Really. It makes things that much easier."
------- Additional Comment #3 From Ulrich Drepper 2007-09-23 16:07 [reply] -------
Stop reopening bugs. Search the web if you want an explanation, I don't have
anything handy and certainly have no interest in writing it up.
"Strange, I never saw your name on my paycheck. Since if that's not the case you
cannot order me around."
"i could have sworn glibc was an FSF/GNU project which meant open source. but
apparently i'm mistaken. if you want anything out of glibc, you've got to pay
for it. awesome!"
"Paid $1 via paypal. ... Please fix."
Gold!!!!
http://blogs.adobe.com/penguin.swf/linuxaudio.png
Also that graphic is wrong. There are loop backs between oss and alsa to pulse and jack. Basically more and more will be going threw oss and alsa directly over time if pulseaudio can be made stop stuffing thing up on alsa and oss interception.
Jack is going to stay around due to is specialist use as a audio mixing table.
Everything linking to oss or alsa is expected. Reason that is the two driver sets.
Cleaning is under way it will get simpler. Really we do need someone to keep a upto date graphic.
http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/library...
I used to really love the general idea of FOSS. I've done work with non-profits, and so I thought free software alternatives could eventually help such organizations lower costs and keep older hardware running longer. Unfortunately, no matter what I try, PC or Mac hardware, it never works out like they say. There are always bugs. Display problems... wireless problems... crappy interfaces... ugly GUI... ugly and poorly designed applications... The list goes on. And the fact that you have to scour the web high and low to try to find some thread where they tell you how to possibly get your graphic card working - it is one of the least user friendly experiences I've ever had to deal with.
I am not going to recommend it anymore.
Could you please be correct Chlorus. There is support for you card just not shipped in all distributions its from creative themselfs and it is a alsa driver.
Bug number and version Xine please. Chlorus.
@Chlorus: Try installing the closed source OSS drivers...they work for the X-fi...not perfectly though, but at least you'll have sound.
Solaris always glosses over the driver abi as a good thing. Missing saying that it has been the cause of quite a few effective root kits against Solaris.
Hate over Alsa and OSS is normal. Hate of PulseAudio is more than earned its no way ready for main use.
Could you please get into the Main flaw of all Open Source OS's out there. It called gcc and binutils. There is a nice big memory eating performance eating defect there that kinda does not get the media coverage it needs. The bastard does not optimise when it links.
You pretty much knew the score from the get go. They knew for god damned sure it was something to be put on servers and workstations for badasses and that was about it. You didn't use the machine to play games or listen to music or fuck around. You got in there and you did your job on some little window with a black background and green letters, or perhaps a white background with black letters. That was about it. That was your "choice". And everyone was totally cool with that. When things hit the fan they had some hard-ass mother fucker on the phone to get shit straight. No nonsense. You didn't have to turn to a bunch of retards from the slashdots when your shit went down.
We had a HP machine's load average jump up a bit - turns out it had fused one of its two cores yet kept running. You don't see that level of engineering too often.
"I like Linux; it has many admirable qualities (great hardware support, for example)."
I wouldn't exactly call Linux hardware support all that great (but then again, I come from You-Know-What-OS environment)
None of this linux bullshit where you need the kernel to be recomplied to use a different printer.
You can rant about Linux whatever you want, just not about the divers, as I said except the video drivers Linux does a good joob on this part.
Really Distro makers nailing down on quality instead of features would help so much its not funny. Many project fade way because distributions refuse to ship them.
Any project that contacts ubuntu for a common support frame work to sort out messes. Might as well walk away not going to get it.
He is a good spin doc Itatv got you tricked. He only talks about cooperation does not do it. That is far far worse than not cooperating and being open about it. With the open source project I am around lots have aproced ubuntu on common bug fixing and other issues. You might as talk to a brick wall than truly talk to Shuttleworth about setting up true cooperation.
The Math department in my former U moved almost completely from RedHat to Macs when the G5 started selling.
Here's another...
http://blogs.adobe.com/penguin.swf/linuxaudio.png
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/07/23/shuttle...
http://www.dvdtimes.co.uk/protectedimage.php?im...
Hmmmm. Posted by a masturbating Sun monkey who thinks that throwing in the words reliability, serviceability observability and resource management will make that big bad Linux thing just go away.
I love the comment on the need for a crash debugger. Yay! Let's getting a Sun consultant in at an exorbitantly large hourly rate to look at a kernel crash, caused by a shitty binary driver (but we don't yet know that) and let's have him wank with the debugger for a few hours. On the other hand, we could have just had all the code and the drivers in the kernel itself and not fucking worried, because that would mean that if we were having problems everyone was having problems. I don't know. Maybe I don't work for an enterprise if I don't have these shitty problems.
This must be why Sun and Solaris didn't get their lunch eaten by Linux after the dot com boom, and why Sun is in such exceptionally great financial shape thanks to the great enterprise features in Solaris everyone needs.
what about you LH ??
Justice is coming!
Linux still doesn't have a kernel debugger, d-trace equivalent, stable abi, whatever.
The sound system is still a tangled mess.
FOSS - using the power of community to achieve half the result in twice the time and three time the man-power - a true marvel of engineering.
FOSS is DEAD
Sound system is cleaner to what it was. Besides only small resources have really been thrown at the desktop.
You are still not talking about major problems. Depends on what you want a Stable api for. If you want a stable console application api its had that for the last 6 years.
http://gcc.gnu.org/wiki/LinkTimeOptimization This problem is where the resources are kinda critically missing. If the complier is defective so is everything built with it. This defect causes more ram usage slower running of programs. With a defect that deep you really got to ask your self how does Linux even do as well as it does. It also seams to be a defect you don't talk about.
It's not available in any distribution yet, as this version is only several weeks old. Linus has objected to kernel debuggers, since he thinks it sullies the kernel developers. (I can't find the link right now).
I didn't know about the link time optimization problem. I gave up developing on Linux several years ago, since most of the tools are crap; For ePenising - I've used emacs + speedbar + valgrind + ddd/gdb + gcc + electricFence- No iteractive debugger or stack tracer meant loading the core dump everytime something was broken - hardly effective - I know Eclipse 3.4 fixes it now, but it is out for only several months, which is several years to late.
There is absolutely nothing Linux/FOSS does better than the propriety equivalents, in just about every level. The development tools are crap, and since FOSS was meant to be developer's wet dreams (and managed to be a complete nightmare), shows something quite distinct about the ability of FOSS to produce results - it can't.
FOSS is DEAD
Sorry distrobutions targeting the embeded market have had kernel debugging since early 2002. You poor unlucky desktop soles you.
gdb has a iterative debugger hiding in it. Eclipse does not really fix it at all. All it does is provide a really heavy front end for it. Note we are talking 2004 and before for gdb interactive support. So if you did not have it then its your front end to blame.
Stack tracing is a really old feature gdb. I never liked emacs. or ddd. DDD misses buttons to access most of the best features of gdb. Both missed what was needed. I have always used different building tools that at least gave me both of them with gdb.
Also FOSS is Not Exactly dead. It has produced results key thing to remember most people don't use the best software even on windows. It has produced results in markets outside you field of view. The features from those markets are going to feed threw. The merge of embedded specialist kernel into main kernel kinda required kernel level debugger to enter.
The tide is turning. It had to happen at one point. You can only stack so many features in a kernel until it starts fighting back over bad coding. Linux kernel has hit that point.
Remember neither Closed or Open Source has ever produced constant dependable results.
Most of Linux's advantages have been in the super computer and embeded where custom kernels rule. Also something non gcc rules. Portland Group Complier with all its nice closed source parts that works. That complier alone in linux kernel gives 10 percent speed boost. Let alone the embeded and super computer alterations.
First job for good desktops is fix the complier. High end guys don't care its already fixed for US.
Linux Standard Base is starting to worry about sorting out the audio mess.
Note closed source Unix's have been equally as big as messes as Linux's if not more. There have been a few rare ones like solarsis that where above the pack. Remember lot of those closed source Unix's are now dead. Because over time Linux got better than them.
Also FOSS is Not Exactly dead. It has produced results key thing to remember most people don't use the best software even on windows. It has produced results in markets outside you field of view.
Like what exactly? The best FOSS software I have used is firefox and yet I wouldn't say it is clearly better than opera or ie7. Linux may be often used in supercomputers but that has more to do with price and x86 compatibility.
As for embedded kernels QNX is still considered to be the best.
The Linux/Foss cult needs to be buried so something else like Haiku or PC-BSD can take its place. Something with a common base so the current unstable abi madness can end. No more having millions of man-hours wasted recompiling basic software to make it distro compatible. No more gui wars while basics like sound are ignored.
You're saying that proprietary software is expensive for a reason. Does this reason disappear when supercomputing is involved? Why does windows have 1% market share there? Are you saying that when building a 4096 node system, people are using inferior solutions in order to cut costs? Isn't windows as x86 compatible as linux?
Why does haiku use a new kernel? How can one kernel be more user friendly than another? Do you know that Trolltech employs former BeOS engineers? What's wrong with QT, isn't it user-friendly enough? Or in this case code duplication is warranted, because you say so?
Has more security bugs than IIS.
http://secunia.com/product/9633/
http://secunia.com/product/1438/
" Gcc, used on almost every platform"
Intel compiler is superior. So is the latest MS C++ compiler.
"samba"
Copy of MS tech. Should I praise the netware stack in windows as mega innovation?
"tex, emacs, vi"
Right. And how often is that great trio used, in the real world I mean?
Compare that to the amount commercial work horses like word, wordperfect, quark are used. OK, quark is not in the exactly same category.. still.
"openssl"
Yeah, man:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=openssl%2B...
"webkit"
Is superior to Opera in what way?
"various math libraries, various font and multimedia libraries"
Yes, because commercial systems don't have math, font and multimedia libraries.
Directx on Windows is like, dead.
And we all know how great fonts on Linux look. Good job, FOSS libraries.
http://tinyurl.com/5g2kcj
Apples and oranges. IIS needs Sharepoint, and half of .Net to compete with apache. If you what "just" a safe and stable static webserver there are other OSS products that way better suited than ISS.
> " Gcc, used on almost every platform"
> Intel compiler is superior. So is the latest MS C++ compiler.
How well do those do on SPARC? Or ARM? Or PowerPC?
> "samba"
> Copy of MS tech. Should I praise the netware stack in windows as mega innovation?
Yes, copies the design of MS tech. However, the implementation is way better.
> "tex, emacs, vi"
> Right. And how often is that great trio used, in the real world I mean?
They are used all of the time in scientific environments.
> Compare that to the amount commercial work horses like word, wordperfect, quark are used.
Doesnt matter. Most of those users are ignorant, and would prefer an upgrade from MSO2003 to OpenOffice.org over to upgrading to MSO2007. OpenOffice/Firefox and other OSS desktop software show how efficient OSS is. They are having very limited resources - and still compete with MS and others where one simple has to wonder what their hordes of developers do all day.
> "openssl"
> Yeah, man:
He was talking about openssl, not the debian releng dimwits.
> "webkit"
> Is superior to Opera in what way?
Extensibility and reusability.
> "various math libraries, various font and multimedia libraries"
> Yes, because commercial systems don't have math, font and multimedia libraries.
> Directx on Windows is like, dead.
DirectX is not math. And scientific libraries like R and openmodelica surpass their commercial counterparts by now. And while DirectX is not dead, gaming on Windows is dying. Consoles have less problems with privacy and Onlinegaming does not need high performance graphics. "Hardcore gaming" on the PC is a shrinking market that get less relevant every day.
> And we all know how great fonts on Linux look. Good job, FOSS libraries.
Umm, when was the last time you saw a Linux desktop? 1998?
I've stopped developing for Linux around 2005, shortly before I've got a "real-job" (tm).
I didn't do any Linux development in the embedded space - yet, when I did develop for Linux, I've used what was recommended / available; I've used Red Hat-->Mandrake--> Libranet when they were all the rage, like Ubuntu is now.
(Did you notice that all those three distro's are effectively dead? Red Hat pulled out of the Desktop market - fedora is used for beta testing. Mandrake-->Mandriva has faded to obscurity, and Libranet died with its founder).
it's been 20 years, man, why do we need to wait any longer, when there are existing solutions? Isn't it time to cut the loses and move on?
FOSS is DEAD.
Cut with the denial, move on the grief and acceptance.
The issue you keep on overlooking is around 2000 first idea of the Linux year of the desktop was pushed failed badly. It was a divided push without third party software with a way in. Failure for cross platform tools to be delivered that worked threw 2000-2006 kinda had it death nailed. Fighting in the Linux Standard Base in this time really did not help either. Signs of change in the Linux Standard Base appeared in 2007 and have kept on going threw this year.
Redhat and other since then retreated to the server market and other markets. Have they given up on the desktop market the answer is no. They are not foolish either. Linux ABI for Desktop application development has to be sorted out to a usable level. That is aimed for November this year.
KDE 4.x coming threw cross platform ok this is looking a lot better than the Novell gnome push to window of 2000-2004 written off as lost cause since Novell was using cygwin and X11 server on windows. Leading to no set applications to use common between OS's to ease migration this effectively doomed the push of Linux onto the desktop for sure. Lot of guys were holding out hope what Novell would provide would be something usable. But as soon as it was seen it was known to be over the push for the Linux Desktop was lost might as well pull back regroup and prepare for the next push.
Sorry to say Ubuntu really has nothing to do with it. They really are being more of a thorn then a help.
Lead up to this we are seeing bugs that have been left for 16 + years in main kernel that were hack fixed in the embeded kernel at long last get fixed correctly. Now what is the change why could the not be left for another year.
I watched the retreat to server space of a lot of distros that still live. They knew like everyone else ABI for application development would be come a required feature to truly start the desktop push.
Linux Standard Base has been backed by these retreating distributions. It goal is to sort out the mess reduce down to a core set of stable ABI's. Providing the means of effective closed source development on Linux. The time of building for Linux Distributions is ending. The start of a new stage is coming. Companies like oracle have been using Linux Standard Base for years. Same with Linux game servers. Look around lot more game servers are ported to Linux than games. Reason current time stable ABI exists to port game servers to all distributions with 1 rpm. Look closer they are Linux Standard Base applications.
So yes the FOSS goal is dead. In the sence of pure open source desktop. Linux has not played it final cards yet.
Also you are missing that RedHat is planing on re-entering the desktop market for business next year. This will be the true second attempt with far more things correct.
Linux/ FOSS will always have The Future.
Stop playing the wait and see game, my friend, you are being fooled by the false prophets of Linux.
It's always been the same shit - a constant promise that The Future holds a better tomorrow.
Fuck them. they lied long enough. They never delivered. You see a change in a tiny corner, and believe that the solution is just around the corner.
it have been the same with X.org, when Keith Packard took over, and now, X is as stagnate and useless as ever, it has been so when pulseaudio was announced, and it only created another level of complexity. It has been the same with Alsa, with V4L2, with preload and tracker and kde 3, with Gcc 4 and with Kde4, with Mandrake, Libranet, and now Ubuntu.
Everyone of them offered the solution, the silver bullet, a better Future. Non of them delivered. ever.
Cure yourself, step off the FOSS blind zealots wagon.
FOSS is DEAD.
It's funny, recently on /. (before I stopped going there) there were some zealots and a Mandriva developer there trying to claim that Mandriva is bigger than Ubuntu.